美国表收藏专题讨论

xhandy 发表于 2012-8-30 18:36
世上难道有完美的策略？适合自己就好。

这话也值得收进语录里去，需要学习的人不仅我们俩啊！

xhandy 发表于 2012-8-30 18:27
他的观念是精品收藏，在精不在多，而且是“藏”多于“玩”，跟穷人玩表的方向当然不一样。

这种策略其实也很适合保值升值的策略吧？

xhandy 发表于 2012-8-30 18:33
所以说他“藏”多于“玩”，而大部分玩家是想更多地接触各种品牌、风格、功能、工艺，藏品的流通性很重要 ...

所见略同，毕竟我们带不走任何东西

xhandy 发表于 2012-8-30 18:19
稀有性而言，学校表是个体作品，表厂的是批量作品，看市场上流通的学校表就知道了；工艺上，这些学生都是 ...

http://www.jones-horan.com/searc ... e&Submit=Submit
这块学生表如何？

xhandy 发表于 2012-8-26 18:10
Charles是德国佬唉.

说到查尔斯和怀表的历史价值问题，钟博士是这样阐述观点的：
“法苏的表的价位超出了我的能力范围，而且大多数被改装过（卖家可信度可能会有问题），所以我不会买单的，也是因为我从来不去理会自己不了解的事物。然而，自从你小子说预算无限，那我就尽管意淫吧。如果一块品相完美的法苏装备了他家独有的同轴擒纵的话，我会买单；如果那块法苏被换了壳，但是曾经被绑在火车上从阿尔巴尼（ALBANY）穿梭到纽约的话，那么就算他品相再差我也会买下。当然，预算无限的话我两块都会买下。

顺便说说，我住在阿尔巴尼地区（ALBANY COUNTY），而查尔斯·法苏有个兄弟在这里经营珠宝店，销售相当数量的高级别伊利诺斯（而且罕见），我心跳加速到恨不得插上翅膀飞到哪里去看一看。（时空转移？）

我买过一块换壳的波特（ALBERT POTTER），因为我认识而且很信任那位卖家，那块表的图片曾经在几个古董表购表指南上出现过。

说到珐琅表，我默认你说的是那种在表盘或者表壳上用填充，掐丝或者微绘工艺作画的那种作品，而非只是用珐琅工艺做简单的修饰就草草了事的那种滥品。那些凝聚了工匠技艺与美学功底之大成的杰作是我所赏识的。我曾经在巴塞尔的豪斯森宅院中见过一套非常美丽的珐琅作品。然而，我对任何珐琅作品都没有收藏的欲望。我早已谈及我的价值取向，而且在我眼里珐琅更像是艺术品而非钟表这样追求极致精准的规则艺术。

由于珐琅的本质，他们根本不可能被留下任何历史的印记（否则就毁了）。同时，我更喜欢那种集极致工艺与返璞归真于一身的匠心之作，而非装饰艺术和复杂结构的机械。只有那些集追求工艺和精准思路的极致产物，才有使人们使用它们，传承他们的价值；而这，就是历史。

原文在此：

First the Fasoldt questions. Fasoldt is way above what I can afford from someone with a clue of what they are selling and so many have been so doctored that I am just not well enough informed on them to make a purchase. My general rule is that if I do not understand what I am doing I leave it alone. Since we were fantasizing unlimited funds those issues would go away and them I still can not reply since neither alternative offered has enough information. If one had his patented chronometer escapement I would probably choose it. If one had been fastened to a steam engine and run from Albany to New York it woudl be the one I wanted regardless of condition, but if I had unlimited funds I might simply buy both.

BTW I lived in the Albany area. Fasoldt had a brother who was also a jeweler and sold a lot of private label Illinois watches. I recall my heart jumping out of my chest at local marts only to see one of those.

I did buy a re-cased Potter. In this case I know and trust the seller and the movement had been pictured in some price guides.

Two enamel watches. I am assuming these are fully enameled scenes and not simple decoration with some engraving filled in with some enamel. These fully enameled watches are things of great beauty. I saw a wonderful collection superbly displayed at the Haus zum Kirshgarten on Basel Switzerland. I have no interest in owning any of them. As I wrote that is just not what I have developed a liking for. I attend every talk I can on them but they are more work ort than precision horology.

Because of the nature of the enamel surface there is no way to record their history on them without desecrating them. Generally i prefer the simple superbly executed watch to decoration and complication. These are also watches that people who led interesting lives were likely to use, pass on and record history on.

nomorewatch 发表于 2012-9-1 13:24
说到查尔斯和怀表的历史价值问题，钟博士是这样阐述观点的：
“法苏的表的价位超出了我的能力范围，而且 ...

博士对珐琅的看法跟我有点类似。虽然我也不下手玩珐琅，但不可否认：表上的珐琅是最高级别的珐琅，特别是珐琅彩绘，比其他珠宝上的珐琅平均水平高得多，比如珠宝盒、化妆盒等等，因为20世纪以前的怀表时代，表本身就已经是非常高端的奢侈品，在此基础之上的艺术修饰加工必须是非常高级的工艺。

nomorewatch 发表于 2012-9-1 03:42
http://www.jones-horan.com/search/index.php?auction=All&searchfor=student+watch&sort_by=date&Submi ...

靓啊！

xhandy 发表于 2012-9-1 08:20
靓啊！

哪一款？
我看不到那个链接，怎么回事？

xhandy 发表于 2012-9-1 08:18
博士对珐琅的看法跟我有点类似。虽然我也不下手玩珐琅，但不可否认：表上的珐琅是最高级别的珐琅，特 ...

金雕壳又如何？这次拍卖有一只爱尔近的库存品相金雕壳，真是美极了！

nomorewatch 发表于 2012-9-2 00:26
哪一款？
我看不到那个链接，怎么回事？

学生作品，天文台擒纵那款。

nomorewatch 发表于 2012-9-2 00:28
金雕壳又如何？这次拍卖有一只爱尔近的库存品相金雕壳，真是美极了！

肯定是漂亮，但也要看成本。

xhandy 发表于 2012-9-1 08:37
肯定是漂亮，但也要看成本。

最低估价1400，最高2000，你同事告诉我不要超过最高估价拍下来

xhandy 发表于 2012-9-1 08:36
学生作品，天文台擒纵那款。

那一款真的是可遇不可求，高路云阿斯曼还有朗格1A在你心中的地位比不上它吧？

nomorewatch 发表于 2012-9-2 00:53
那一款真的是可遇不可求，高路云阿斯曼还有朗格1A在你心中的地位比不上它吧？

收藏上这类表可是独一无二的。

xhandy 发表于 2012-9-1 09:12
收藏上这类表可是独一无二的。

即便是全手工制作的机心范畴内，学生毕业表比起高路云阿斯曼和朗格1A还是高上一筹？
看来我得好好补补课了

xhandy 发表于 2012-9-1 09:12
收藏上这类表可是独一无二的。

说起高路云阿斯曼是否值得一直留在身边（因为他的市场认知度不好），博士是这么说的：
“我也有一只装在贱金属表壳里的高路云阿斯曼，它是我在某一天漫长寻宝过程中的战利品。我很喜欢高路云和阿斯曼之间的故事，所以我很喜欢这块表（估计是不会出售的了，加上机心也是好东西）。

我并没有把高路云阿斯曼看成是顶级简单表；诚然，它的素质真的非常非常好，但是高路云的雕花（摆轮夹板上的雕花是高路云干的么？）大多低劣。我怀疑好的那一部分雕花是阿斯曼做的，而坏的那一部分都是高路云的烂作。尽管如此，我仍然认为高路云阿斯曼的价值被严重低估了（可能是因为不够纯正）。其实这款表是为一个有能力支付整套生产线的有钱客户制造的，但是我认为，带有动能显示的高路云才是厂家自己做过的最好的表。

我见过的高路云阿斯曼绝大部分都被换过壳（难道原配是重金壳？），这意味着这款表当年的销售很不理想，而且被迫大幅降价销售（难怪要换壳）。而且，购买它的客户并非一些大客户（怪不得没有服役过）。
一般来说，销售最成功的好表都会被传承下来，而且不会被传人以金价出手。虽然表不仅仅是一块金属疙瘩，我见过的那些有着高贵出身的表的下场通常都要比高路云阿斯曼好上一点。譬如，我从来没有见过一块被换壳的有着动储显示的高路云（Deitrich Gruen？）

值得一提的是，50周年庆和动储显示款都是高路云向阿斯曼学习的成果。

如果我有幸碰到一只原装壳，同时带有出生纸的高路云阿斯曼，而我又有充足预算的话，我会毫不犹豫地下手。

当然，纯正的1A级别的格拉苏堤表绝对比高路云阿斯曼更胜一筹。

值得注意的是，以上信息全部是我的个人观点，经确认，我没有上述表款的成系列收藏，也没有被邀请去写购表专栏的经历。”

原文在此：
I do own a Gruen Assmann in a questionable base metal case. The price was right and it was a the end a long day of looking for stuff. I also like the story of Assmann and Gruen. It is a nice watch and I do like it.

I do not consider it to be a top end simple watch. It is very, vey good but in my view the Gruen engraving on most of them is really badly done. I suspect Assmann did the good stuff and some one at Gruen did the bad engraving. Still, for what they are, I think they are very undervalued. They were made for a very wealthy clientele but I think the Deitrich Gruen watches such as the up down were the best ones they made.

Most of the Gruen Assmanns I have seen have been recased. That suggests that these were not successful and were sold at discount. They were not bought by the major movers and shakers. The watches bought by the most successful have a strong tendency to get passed down and not sold for gold. This is far fro iron clad but most of the watches I have seen with great provenance are in my view a bit better than these. I have never seen a re-cased Gruen Up down for example.


I suspect Art Bissel（另一个会员） would disagree but that is what makes the hobby interesting. There are also a lot who like the 50th anniversary model and it is a very well made item. I think those two series benefited from what they learned on the Assmanns.

If a one in an original case with an interesting inscription came along I would take a long hard look at my watch funds and give it very serious consideration.

I think the pure Glasshutte 1a grades are a definite level higher.

Bear in mind these are my opinions and last I checked, I have not been put in charge of any collections or asked to write any guide books.

有一批阿斯曼高路云的刻字做得很粗糙，这点高路云的收藏专家“十二寸收藏”先生以前阐述过，估计是没刻字的机芯送到高路云后，由高路云自己刻的。
阿斯曼高路云的确有一批是计划供应铁路表市场的，甚至可能真正服役过，因为盘面上有铁路的字样，但很罕见。
至于动显版，的确是高路云最好的机芯之一，但这个机芯的基础芯是来自AP的，这点从机芯的版路就可以看得出，包括高路云的Ultrathin和一些Dietrich Gruen的Extra Precision版本，都是AP的杰作，跟阿斯曼关系不大，可能钟博士对高路云接触得不算很多。

xhandy 发表于 2012-9-2 17:03
有一批阿斯曼高路云的刻字做得很粗糙，这点高路云的收藏专家“十二寸收藏”先生以前阐述过，估计是没刻字的 ...

从他这几次的回复看，他的经济条件可能跟你差不多。