[转贴]几位朋友要的,TUDOR-SUB史.

http://www.tudorcollector.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2

The Tudor Submariner series was in many ways different from the other product lines adopted by Tudor. Unlike almost all Tudor models, the Tudor Submariner uses the same model designation as the Rolex equivilant - i.e. Submariner. In the newest variations introduced after the 1980's they changed the name to Hydronaut - but from 1956 till the mid 80's - the Tudor Submariner existed as an almost carbon copy of it's Rolex sister.

Submariner Reference 7922

The earliest Submariner found in the Tudor family is the Reference 7922. The 7922 is a special watch in many respects. First of all it would seem that the Tudor Ref. 7922 Submariner and the Rolex Ref 6538 Submariner were introduced at the same time. Many Rolex experts (e.g. Guido Mondani, Submariner Story, 2009), lists the Rolex Refrence 6538 Submariner to be running as a production watch since 1956. Interestingly enough the earliest Tudor Reference 7922 was also introduced in 1956. (in our serial # database we have a  single one with a I.56 caseback). This to us would indicate a simultanious roll-out of the two models - Rolex and Tudor - side by side. Also note that the Rolex and Tudor serial # ranges of the mid 1950's are almost identical. This indicates to us that the two serial  # ranges started at the same point in time, and the gap between the two ranges grow during the late 50's and into the 60's as Rolex sales soar, and Tudor sales does not.

The 7922 sports a 8mm Brevet "+" crown as does the Rolex 6538. The dial layout and hands are similar in styling, fonts and shape, to that of the Rolex 6538. Note the 100m dial vs. 200m dials is a long standing discussion amongst Tudor fans and collectors. Not enough original pieces exist in order to firmly decide on the existance of 200m dials beginning in 1956. Most likely the dials started out as 100m dials and in the late 1950's the 200m dials were introduced. The confusion regd. this may be based on casebacks being swapped, dials used and replaced at service  and the common fact of very few pieces in exsistence to compare with.

The bezels are usually fitted as bi-directional bezels with red triangle - similar to the Rolex variation.

Later 1950's 7922 also exist as small crown versions - i.e. without the 8mm Big crown. Again, these exist in the wild, as both 200m and 100m versions - and it's not been possible to determine exactly which variation came first. However, we have not seen a "standard crown" variation with a sub 240.000 serial #. Which would indicate that the Big Crown variation came first. (Already seen from the #140.000's). The 7922 non BC's we have seen are all thin case variations, and they feature the 6mm oyster crown.

The 7922 was most likely sold with Rolex stainless steel Ref. 7206 Rivit bracelets or the optional 6636 "stretchy" variation. The watch is 20mm between the lugs and the caseback uses the standard Rolex 29.5mm case opener. 6538 casebacks have been seen in 7922 watches.

The movement is a cal. 390 Tudor movement. Originally produced by Fleurier. The movement is automatic, as nearly all Tudor Submariner movements.

1950年代,REF7922,CAL390.
无护肩,金线圈.




Submariner Reference 7923

The Reference 7923 Submariner is perhaps the most unknown reference in the Tudor Submariner collection. It's mere exsistence has been hard to prove. Only few have ever seen one. Until lrecently they were considered prototypes or "frankenwatches" however recent finds show them clearly described in Rolex/Tudor service catalogues, and grouped with the 7922 and Rolex 6536/1.

4-5 of these watches has surfaced online. The charchteristics of the watch is quite similar to that of the 7922. It has a manual wind movement. Cal. 1156-1188 which is unique for this model. The movement has been an enigma for collectors, but recent research (Tom Vox, VRF) shows that the movement is most likely an ETA based 10.5" 1156. 1188 is assumed to being the internal tudor reference for the modified movement.

The dial offers the classic radium dial design similar to it's sisters. MK 1. dial sports a miniature Tudor Rose inside a shield, of course gilt printing and inner track. The SWISS writing at six o clock is of the same color as the rest of the dial printing and we have never seen these with a exclamation point dot under the 6 o'clock marker. There is no dept rating on the dial. And dial wise the watch seems to be close to the dial layout of the Rolex 6205 submariner. The dial layout and similarity to the 6205 is one of the confusing things about this reference. As the watch seems to be prior in dial layout and design to the 7922 - it seems odd that the 7923 has a later reference number than 7922 - when in fact a 7923 seems to be earlier than the 7922. The MK II dial variation (210.000+ serial range) offers a traditional Tudor Rose and a 3 line dial 100m / Submariner / Shock Resisting. Originally the MK II dials were thought to be replacement dials, but the large gap in the serial # ranges, more likely indicate two versions. Dials with Red Writing (MK II) has also been seen.


这个好玩,手上链的版本.














Submariner Reference 7924

The reference 7924 shares a similar fate to it's two older brothers - the 7922 and 7923. Short production run and unclear history. All the 7924's seem to have 1958 casebacks. As with the 7922 they are featured in thick case / big crown variations and in thin case / 6mm crown variations.

The 7924 was most likely sold with Rolex stainless steel Ref. 7206 Rivit bracelets or the optional 6636 "stretchy" variation. The watch is 20mm between the lugs and the caseback uses the standard Rolex 29.5mm case opener.

The crystal on the 7924 is the tropic 17. Thereby it is grouped together with the Rolex 5510, 6200 and 6538. It is interesting to note that the 7924 shares crystals with the 6538 but not casebacks.

The movement is a cal. 390 Tudor movement. Originally produced by Fleurier. The movement is automatic, as nearly all Tudor Submariner movements. These movements exist in raw brass versions and in rhodium (or similar) silver like plating. There is vivid discussions in the collectors community regd. which movement platings is correct for what reference. In general almost all combinations have been seen. I have communicated with Rolex on this issue but not received an answer.

Tudor Submariner Reference 7928

The Tudor Reference 7928 is perhaps one of the most classic Tudor sports models. It saw a long production run from approximatly 1960 (earliest caseback we have seen is an IV.59 with a 300.xxx serial) till approximatly 1968. There are several versions of the 7928. In broad overview there are two reference groups. The 7928 and the 7928/0. The /0 was added to many tudor references in the mid 60's to denote stainless steel - in a similar fashion as Rolex did with their models. Within the two main groups, a large amount of variations exist. Many of those are pictured in this section.

It is quite complex to chart all the dial variations of the 7928. First of all, these watches due to their lower price point (and also several versions used for military use) have had questionable service histories. This means that dials may have been changed back and forth, redone, relumed, repainted or even faked. In this section we will do our best to describe the known varieties.

The early 7928's feature the "** dial" where a inner ring is printed on the dial a few milimeters from the edge.

The upper half of the dial features the classic small Tudor Rose. Underneath the text " Oyster-Prince ". The bottom portion differs a bit from model to model - but typically they feature the " 200m = 660ft " (denoting depth rating of course), then " SUBMARINER " and the two last lines " Rotor " and " Self-winding " - which of course denoted the automatic movement.

The following dial variations have been found so far: (I am certain there are a few more at least)

MK I. Always cased in a Square Crown case. Gilt writing. Gilt track.
MK II. Gilt track - silver writing
MK III. Silver writing and no track
MK IV. Oridnary writing and markers similar to Rolex 5513

At least 4 case variations have been seen. The early "Square" (quite unique) crownguards (** dial). One variation of pointed crownguards (1962-63, ** dial) and minium two variations of the round crownguards.

The crystal for these cases are all Tropic 19. This is shared with (amongst others) the Rolex 5512 and 5513 Submariners. Case and look wise - these are the ones closest to the Tudor Reference 7928. It is fair to say that the 7928 is the "poor mans" version of the 5513. (i.e. not chronometer certified).

这表被称为最够味的老潜水帝舵.

Tudor Submariner Reference 7016/0 & 7021/0

It has been discussed for years why the Reference 7016 & 7021 Submariners were introduced. First seen around 1968 (verfiable) they feature a long list of changes compared to the Reference 7928. First of all there are two of them. :-) The 7016 features a non-date layout while the 7021 features a layout with a Date mechanism. If we look at the Rolex world, this co-incides with the realease of the 1680 - the Rolex Submariner with a date. So, this "explains" why the 7021 was introduced. By why add the 7016 ?

The reason is most likely movements. The 7928 featured the cal. 390 automatic movement, bought from Fleurier (FEF). During the 60's almost all Tudor models disbanded the various movement manufactureres and went pure ETA. (Exception of course being the Tudor Advisor with the proprietary alarm clock movement). The Cal 390. was first seen in early Tudor automatics (most famous the Tudor Oyster 34) from 1951-52 - so realistically the movement has seen at least 16 years of service. And the base is even older. The combination of a pure ETA movement strategy (well, untill the Chronos were introduced 2 years later) and the fact that training and mechanical service would be much easier when the date and non-date Submariners used the same base - resulted in the death of the 7928.

To add to the complexity - both versions came with the choice of dial color. Either blue or black. Case dimensions and overall design was more or less identical to the 7928. Interestingly enough, the very first 7016 featured the same dial layout as the 7928. (Rose dial with the 4 lines on the bottom half of the dial). These (in the examples I have seen) feature a semi-pointed crownguard case. And most likely not produced for very long. Subsequently the dial layout changed to the classic "Snowflake" design with square markers and square hands.

In the past, collectors have speculated that the black dial versions were "disbanded" and the blue color versions were introduced instead, as they had better dials. This is incorrect. We have seen 7021's as early as mid 1968 with pale blue dials, with classic dial rot and a nice roulette style date wheel. 100% original, 1 owner piece. So, more than likely, the black and blue dials co-existed - and were both prone to rot.

Technically the 7016 features a ETA Cal. 2483. It's a 25 jewel movement (as opposed to the 17j cal. 390 in the older Reference 7928). In the Tudor / Rolex technical service manuals it is designated as 2461-2483. In the past this covers an internal and an external reference number.

The 7021 features the cal. 2484. Main difference is of course the date feature.

It should be noted that in Rolex documentation the references are other denoted as 7016 or 7016/0 - and 7021 or 7021/0. The addition of the /0 was a common reference changed, started by Rolex and Tudor in the middle of the 60's. However, there seems to be no system as to when the different references changed from the classic 4 digits to the 4+/0 digit system. The /0 of course describes the case material as stainless steel (as it does in Rolex models). In my experience all 7016 and 21 series watches have the /0. If anyone has seen one without the /, please email me a scan.

The 7016 and 7021 ended production circa 1975 when the 9401 and 9411 models were introduced in their place. In our findings it seems that the serial # range for these watches are:

620.000 serial till 780.000 serial. (1968-1975).

* Should be noted that Military issued MN 7016's have been seen with serials up in the 820.000' range. Which is nearly a year later than 9401/11 introduction. Most likely due to either Rolex selling old cases off to DOD customers, or more likely a specific order from the MN, requesting 7016.

We are still working on figuring out which Rolex dial produceres were making the dials for the 70xx series Submariners. We have seen dial rot in models up to and including 1975. Since 7016 and 7021's with GOOD dials have been spotted in the collectors community, it would indicate that they are either service dials, or that some of the dials produced in the 7 year window, actually did not develop dial rot. More details about this at a later point.

只有无放大镜的版本才用泡镜,很多后换的带了棱边.

Tudor Submariner Reference 9401/0 & 9411/0

Work in progress

The next generation of Submariners, following the 7016/7021 are the 9401/0 and 9411/0. These watches feature an option of blue or black dials. They exist in various variations.

9401/0 - Produced circa. 1975-76. Non-Date. Blue or black dial with "snowflake" markers and hands.
9411/0 - Produced circa. 1975-76. Date. Blue or black dial with "snowflake" markers and hands.
94010 - Produced circa. 1976-83. Till circa 1980 (the introduction of 5 digit serials, reverted) had the "Snowflake" design. From circa. 1980-83 - Triangle markered dials.
94110 - Produced circa. 1976-83. Till circa 1980 (the introduction of 5 digit serials, reverted) had the "Snowflake" design. From circa. 1980-83 - Triangle markered dials.

The 94010 Snowflake is most notably known for it's use by the Franch Navy. And it is the only "verifiable" Military watch other than the Rolex Military 5513/5517's. These were of course also sold in fairly big numbers in the civilian market.

The non-date 9401/0 (and later 94010) featured a Cal. 2776 movement. ETA based - modified by Tudor. The Date versions (9411/0 and 94110) featured a cal 2784.

斧头针版本,

Tudor Submariner Reference 76100.

The 76100 is interesting indeed. It is one of the "low production" transitional watches that Tudor excelled in. The 76100 only existed with a date. Whats interesting is that it seems that it was produced along side the 94110. Optically it is identical to the later 94110 (with triangle marker matté tritium dial) - however it had different hands - including a big bubble - hours hands which is quite distinct.

Earliest 76100 serial seen is 64.000 range - which is litrally a few hundred numbers away from the last 94010. Interestingly enough the Rolex R20 manual from 1984 does not feature the 76100. This leads me to believe it was introduced in 84. To further complicate matters, the 94010 in question is a MN83 (Marine Nationale, issued in 1983) so there seems to be a gap in the serial numbers - perhaps even a production halt for a period of time ?

带日历的版本没那个带劲了.

后面的大家都知道了,

79090,

79190,

89190.

注意:

中型的中古潜水表玩的价值远低于正大装款.

感谢徐老师的资料！

很不错的资料，徐老师费心拉

1.带日历的版本没那个带劲
2.中型的中古潜水表玩的价值远低于正大装款
牢记！

徐老师 近期还能见到好品斧头针吗？

厚德 发表于 2012-1-20 23:00
徐老师 近期还能见到好品斧头针吗？

这几年已无可能,有也是S贵.

OHSEAL 发表于 2012-1-20 23:03
这几年已无可能,有也是S贵.

今天看了这帖
联想到前年隔壁论坛挂出了一块 价格8k
可一直没有卖出 不知道是不是有问题
斧头针

又现老大强帖！！！！！

厚德 发表于 2012-1-20 23:14
今天看了这帖
联想到前年隔壁论坛挂出了一块 价格8k
可一直没有卖出 不知道是不是有问题

快快去挖挖帖追击一下啊

帝陀精彩之处在于此 。。。。。。     

OHSEAL 发表于 2012-1-20 23:03
这几年已无可能,有也是S贵.

日本乐天之前看到过，品不错，可惜没及时下手。

学习

好好学习。天天向上；

学习

有木有TUDOR的计时历史啊？？呵呵

图挂了不少啊