pocketwatchkong 发表于 2012-8-2 22:53
至少得有块朗格的1A吧，别的三问，双追什么的只有看缘分了。而且，其高昂的成交价也不是一般表迷们能负担的 ...
pocketwatchkong 发表于 2012-8-2 22:53
至少得有块朗格的1A吧，别的三问，双追什么的只有看缘分了。而且，其高昂的成交价也不是一般表迷们能负担的 ...
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-3 01:09
朗格1A级德国银夹板的版本！再往上的复杂款价格太高，跟瑞士高端表比较没有优势，一只二问的朗格跟三问PP差 ...
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-5 11:18
朗格有没有一些三分二或是非封闭性甲板的机心？
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-5 08:14
朗格没有，朗格的亲戚（女婿）艾斯曼有。
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-6 00:26
举些例子可以吗？有图的话就更好了
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-5 08:38
明天可以吗？累了
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-6 00:26
举些例子可以吗？有图的话就更好了
。艾斯曼也是德国顶级品牌中最早玩分离式夹板的厂家。
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-5 16:57
艾斯曼（Assmann）的创始人娶了阿道夫朗格的女儿，所以说两家是姻亲。艾斯曼也是德国顶级品牌中最早玩 ...
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-6 10:07
这机心看上去用料不够高档，连中心轮都没有用钻，怎么算得上是好机心？
工艺我看不懂，图片太模糊了
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-5 19:11
跟瑞士高级芯比较的确没有优势，但凭德系怀表现在的市场影响力和稀有度，价值还是不低。
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-3 01:09
朗格1A级德国银夹板的版本！再往上的复杂款价格太高，跟瑞士高端表比较没有优势，一只二问的朗格跟三问PP差 ...
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-7 03:12
阿斯曼的机心跟朗格1A那个工艺和用料更好？（包括高路云阿斯曼）
.xhandy 发表于 2012-8-6 23:17
闹兄厉害，有这种钻研态度一定可以在怀表收藏路上勇猛精进.
坊间传言，德国银夹板的朗格1A机芯 ...
谢谢翁版夸赞，如此说来，朗格对阿斯曼的基础款优势仅仅在所谓“品牌价值”，而非工艺或者用料特别勇猛。xhandy 发表于 2012-8-6 23:17
闹兄厉害，有这种钻研态度一定可以在怀表收藏路上勇猛精进.
坊间传言，德国银夹板的朗格1A机芯 ...
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-6 23:17
闹兄厉害，有这种钻研态度一定可以在怀表收藏路上勇猛精进.
坊间传言，德国银夹板的朗格1A机芯 ...
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-6 23:17
闹兄厉害，有这种钻研态度一定可以在怀表收藏路上勇猛精进.
坊间传言，德国银夹板的朗格1A机芯 ...
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-9 02:34
多谢闹兄，这些知识太难得了，值得精读。
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-10 10:30
坛子上要是有英文高手的话，就把这段话翻译过来吧，我怕自己翻译得不好
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-10 01:27
舍兄其谁
他的英文水平可以在北美表圈玩得翻天覆地，而且又没有架子，就是忙了点。。。xhandy 发表于 2012-8-9 02:34
多谢闹兄，这些知识太难得了，值得精读。
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-30 10:06
这是来自另一位前辈的观点：
高路云阿斯曼的机心是不纯正的，因为它的擒纵叉平衡方式是美式编制的，而 ...
分离式夹板更方便制作，绝对是设计上的实用性考虑。xhandy 发表于 2012-8-29 18:18
要在美国玩得开当然要用美国元素了，何况当时的美国表业是先进性代表嘛。蜗牛微调为什么不必要？这点可不 ...
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-30 10:44
这家伙思路很像极端正统派的犹太人，非常守旧
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-29 19:24
而且他也有说得不对的地方，阿斯曼高路云的擒纵是纯正德国设计，乃德国殿堂级制表大师Moritz Grossman先生 ...
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-8-30 11:59
值得注意的是，说这话的那个家伙手上有顶级的朗格，纯正阿斯曼和葛斯曼的机心。
看过图片之后，觉得这家 ...
，不知道他说美金还是人民币？xhandy 发表于 2012-8-29 20:02
推荐朗海涅给他吧，不过可不止10万，不知道他说美金还是人民币？
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-5 16:57
艾斯曼（Assmann）的创始人娶了阿道夫朗格的女儿，所以说两家是姻亲。艾斯曼也是德国顶级品牌中最早玩 ...
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-9-13 14:00
http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?93096-Fine-Assmann-%28Ausman%29-Gruen
这帖子里有阿斯曼和其他欧 ...
xhandy 发表于 2012-9-12 22:26
见过有VC机芯的BAll，可以说是VC里面的高级水平，但不是十分惊艳，钟博士的推崇估计是受到VC威名的影响吧 ...
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-29 19:24
而且他也有说得不对的地方，阿斯曼高路云的擒纵是纯正德国设计，乃德国殿堂级制表大师Moritz Grossman先生 ...
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-3 01:09
朗格1A级德国银夹板的版本！再往上的复杂款价格太高，跟瑞士高端表比较没有优势，一只二问的朗格跟三问PP差 ...
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-29 19:24
而且他也有说得不对的地方，阿斯曼高路云的擒纵是纯正德国设计，乃德国殿堂级制表大师Moritz Grossman先生 ...
"Better" is a tricky term for use with watch escapements. While the detent, spring and pivoted, produce the best results in lab settings they do not do well in rough pocket wear.
The Swiss lever, in my view, took over becuase it provides the best combination of lab and rough use results, along with ease of manufacture and adjustment. IT seems ot hold up well to minor abuswe and will run even with slightly bend pivots. Usually this robustness is good.
M Grossmann wrote a terrific book "A Theoretialc and Practical Treatise on the Lever Escapment" is available in several forms as a free download.
The English and a few Swiss consitnued ot experiiment with the Daniels over and away the most successful recent attempt to better the Swiss lever.
BTW I beleive a Swiss lever has these features
1) Straight line lay out
2) Dividied lift with club teeth on the escape wheel
3) Visible pallet jewels
4) Double roller
The staight line layout provides the best view of operation with facilitates adjustment when needed
The club tooth escape wheel is far more resitistat to wear than the English "ratchet tooth or pointed tooth. The club tooth also lends itself to oil holding goodies such as raised teeth and retention holswe as used by Breguet who use it first to my knowledge.
The visible really means that the pallets are held by their sides making them adjustable from the top on a heated surface making setting them a lot easier than on an English style. It also shows off the jewels which require removal of the lever to see them on an English watch. Its better looking at least to me.
Whether the double roller is part of a Swiss lever is debateable and if someone really knows better I will accept correction. The benefit of the double roller is that its safety action takes place on a smaller radius for less disturbance than unlocking and impulse which are at alarger radius. Less energy is lost on unlocking and more is given on impulse. The down side of the double roller is that the end of the lever is a heavier and its inertial redices escapement efficiency. For thsi reason the single roller often did better in time trials. Sibngle roller sare alos susceptible to loss of safety action leading to mislocking (Its very thin pin can bend) . US railroads insisted on double rollers once they were widely available in the probably correct belief that they did better in railroad hard use.
This is a complex history with very little authorativive information in books.
Grossman is very good on theory and readily available, but it dates from 1869 and the Swiss lever was not the emerged thing it was until the 1990's. Kemp's The English Fusee Lever Watch has a lot on the evolution but admits ignorance on the final emergence. This is a scarce book but worth looking to find.
In terms of departures from the Swiss lever, the most commong today is the Daniels Co axisl but the Freak which we discusssed and an Audemars Piguet variant have recently been put inot top grade watches. These are not going to get anything like the use that the Swiss lever so their success is not so clear. These are variants.
As to continuing production, I think the cylinder and possibly the American duplex survided the longest as alternatives and the English lever held on possibly up to World War II in very small production.
One other survivor I failed ot to include that began as a very high end and went very low was the pin pallet escapement. It is very amusing to contrast Grossmann's view on it with todays complete disdain for this variant.
One other "odd ball" was the DeLong Escapement which is very rare in Illinois and Ball watches and was later used in a much later and widely produced Timex watch.
I do not know what is in modern cheap mechanical watches but the pin pallet was dominant until very recently. The overwhelming majority were robust but Grossmann has a lot of preaise for the escapement. The DeLong was a jeweled pin pallet.
I have ben careful to call tehse pin pallet becuase a few variants have pins in differnt parts of their lever but the pin pallet. sometimes also called the Roskopf has the advanatage that its parts can be build by failry simple machines. Its robustness is the attraction allowing it to work in a loosley built watch.
The problem is that they accumulated dust at critical points in the mechanism which are hard to remove. These machine made watches are held together with bent tabs and are very hard to disassemble and clean.
I suspect that a carefully built watch with high precision fits would rival a Swiss lever in various performance areas. Its bad reputation keep serious makers from trying it. That it will work in a loosely built watch does not mean it is not capable of high perofrmance. In the early days of detached levers, the table roller has a similar "image" problem but dedicated makers later took many Observatory **s with table rollers. I suspect that if true mechanical watch timing trails were re-opened some adventurous maker could win with a pin pallet.
nomorewatch 发表于 2012-10-23 13:48
其实我一直想知道，高露云阿斯曼算不算德国表？机心是在德国做的吧？
xhandy 发表于 2012-10-23 08:09
高路云是美国表！阿斯曼高路云只是现代收藏家对这个品种的一种称呼而已。
xhandy 发表于 2012-8-3 01:09
朗格1A级德国银夹板的版本！再往上的复杂款价格太高，跟瑞士高端表比较没有优势，一只二问的朗格跟三问PP差 ...
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